Why is it only the latter and not the former? The former just lays out more clearly what the latter includes. And it was in philosophy class that I first came across this definition of religion. Timothy Keller merely reiterates this definition more succinctly than I could from memory.

The only thing really wrong with it is that you consider morals, laws. I never understood that. Morals are nothing more than thoughts on how we should act. Don't get me wrong, many laws are in fact based on morals, but that doesn't make the moral itself a law.

I don't go out and steal from a bakery; yet, if I did, there would be no "moral police" arresting me. Of course, there would be real police, because a law was derived from our morals, but morals themselves are not laws, commandments, or beings telling you how to act.

Morals are evolutionary products that help us survive and reproduce. They do this by keeping us safe (i.e. having a larger population to fight off enemies and reproduce with.), they keep us in good standing with our neighbors so that we would be more likely to survive and reproduce, and they keep us from harming ourselves.

Can you please explain to me why you think they are laws?

Because religion is a broad term.

religion [ri?lij?n]
noun
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods : ideas about the relationship between science and religion.
• details of belief as taught or discussed : when the school first opened they taught only religion, Italian, and mathematics.
• a particular system of faith and worship : the world's great religions.
• a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance : consumerism is the new religion.

That is from the Oxford American Dictionary.

No where does it say, "a set of beliefs that explain what life is all about, who we are, and the most important things that human beings should spend their life doing."

Some religions do explain what life is about. It most likely isn't a correct explanation, but that do explain. The difference is, what religion IS and what religion DOES.

As far as your other post, and Pyro's, which I have yet to read, I am getting there. It's been a really tiring week.

Please remember that "Thou" is the singular familiar form, not the plural or formal form. God is addressing individuals, whereas he gives authority (and the weighted responsibility) to kill when it's needed.
Why is it okay to have sex in some contexts and not in others (i.e. with animals)? Why can't God make up his mind?

*cracks knuckles*  get ready to read!  hehe



I can see where you're coming from, and because the laws of nature work so well, it's easy and tempting to assign a creator to such marvels.  still, I think it's a bit too easy to just say 'God wants x, so x it shall be.'  humans have consistently shown that they must have answers (for life, for their behavioural patterns, for what that mysterious noise in the corridor was); as such, they most often jump to the quickest conclusion they're able to make
(ie Ghosts!  God!  a criminal!  my evil boss!).
people often abandon logic simply to have an answer at their disposal.  assumptions usually come most naturally before an individual decides to either pursue a factual and/or more plausible explanation - or, in some cases, it's just left at the assumption with no desire or motivation to find another explanation.


in any case, i still think a lot of it comes down to evolution, societal pressures, and perhaps (in some cases) even a sense of arrogance.
I'm sure you certainly don't smile about the fundamentalists that gave their lives for their version of 'the greater good' on 11 sept.  however, many of their peers certainly -did- smile: to them, the cause was worth dying for, no matter how much you and I are disgusted by such acts.

martyrdom is relative, and in every case you can find those that agree with the situation's cause - and those that disagree.
because of this relativity/subjectivity, it makes far more sense to assign society and/or evolution as the key influence.



I'm talking about all those years that fit into the 'BC' category,  not to mention ancient religions that pre-date Christianity. 
further, I've always had trouble believing Jesus -is- God; they've always been separate in my mind, ever since I can first recall learning anything about religion.  (I've been told otherwise, but it's still never struck me that way.)
I'm not entirely sure that I believe He's the son of God, either; for the most part, it's been so engrained that I have difficulty -not- believing it, but I still do call it into question.


i don't suppose He really could've sat there and added, 'and the transgendered and transsexual and homosexual', as it would've slowed things down a bit.
even still, i think gays should at least be allowed recognition in their relationships, especially as so many straight people have managed to ruin marriage's reputation throughout the years.



I will re-quote this there, as I think it needs attention.



when is it needed?
even if war is a necessary evil, I was always under the impression (and I recall reading a bible quote about this exact matter) that war is the absolute last course of action that should take place; that we need to exhaust all alternatives before consenting to war (mass-murder).
that doesn't often seem to be the case, especially where holy wars are concerned.


I don't know; why can't he?*
he certainly changes his mind about abortion* where infidelity is concerned.

regarding sexual behaviours:
I think (the majority of) humans biologically aren't wired to view animals & insects as sexual objects.  I also think societal pressures have been round long enough when it comes to human/animal cross-breeding, as well.

                                                                       _________

*the green text is clickable

also,
**please understand:  I am not intentionally trying to just 'shoot down' every idea; however, it's difficult for me to comprehend the 'logic' behind organised religions.  this forum is my attempt to do so.

Assuming all you said about God and morals was true, remember, just assuming, you still contradicted yourself in the end. /sigh.

"The American culture is stretching the limits of what God will tolerate, and I fight for a lengthening (if not a turnaround) of this process."

"I am not trying to impose my personal morals on other people's lives; I am yelling out my plea for God Almighty to spare us for the sake of those who heed his Word and want this culture to fall in line with his will for our lives."

Oh, and wouldn't you capitalize his, and not word?

The American culture is stretching its limits of what God will tolerate, and I will fight for a lengthening of this process. I paraphrased what you said. Essentially, in this statement you say that you think America is turning immoral and God will eventually punish us for it; but you will fight to lengthen or turn around this process.

The only way to do this is to turn more Americans into Christians, and for them to follow your pseudo-morals.

However, you say this, "I am not trying to impose my personal morals on other people's lives."

I'm sorry if you can't see the contradiction, but it is glaring. Lastly, you then forsake the people you are trying to convert with this statement, "I am yelling out my plea for God Almighty to spare us for the sake of those who heed his Word and want this culture to fall in line with his will for our lives."

Now you are selfishly praying for people like yourself to get spared by God's wrath and not everyone else.

Essentially, you want to convert people, but you don't want to impose your beliefs, and you are only praying for people like yourself to be spared.

Contradictory, and rather rude statements. As one of those people who are not christian, and don't fall in line with your pseudo-morals, am I insulted that you won't pray for me.

If I believed what you believed, I would convert everyone. Holy crap, burning in Hell forever sounds like a bitch. And yet you want to convert people like me, but you won't because you don't want to impose your beliefs upon me, and you won't even pray for me.

Man, show a little love.

Wow, very long post, thank you.

I would just like to say, that my above post was written in a joking manor. I probably should have made that more clear, that's my fault. On the case about Atheists treating you rudely, mainly because they think your beliefs are about as credible as a 5 year old talking about his/her imaginary friend, I have to ask you a question.

Assuming that Atheists don't respect you because they think your beliefs are silly and assuming that you find beliefs like, Zeus casting down lightning from Mt. Olympus, Hindu beliefs and rituals, Norse Gods (which are actually really interesting), and all other religious beliefs, do you yourself look upon them in any lesser way?

Be honest with yourself, we aren't going to judge you, because we all feel this way. When a belief is so different, and foreign to yours that you grew up with all your life, it is very hard to look at them without having some sort of prejudice. I'm using the term prejudice very lightly.

Do I find your beliefs silly? Yes. When I open the bible, I see primitive writings that don't have any support at all except for those that are deluded enough to believe in them. And don't get offended by 'deluded' because you yourself think that about other religions. It is just how humans are. We aren't perfect, and we certainly weren't created in the image of a God who is supposed to be perfect.

As far as voting is concerned, I do think your a hypocrite. You don't want to push your beliefs on people; yet, you would most likely vote to ban gay marriage or a ban on abortion or stem cell research. I would respect you more if you admitted that you did in fact push your beliefs on people, just as everyone else does.

It's okay to admit stuff that society would say was wrong, but they are just being hypocrites. If you believe in something, admit it, follow through with it, and don't try to make yourself more appealing to everyone. The thing I respect more than anything else is being honest.