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Author Topic: Why do you believe in God?  (Read 4057 times)
Scott
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« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2008, 08:10:25 AM »



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Oh, and besides, even if I did have an inkling of a belief in god, I would have completely stopped on July 14, 2008.

i'm guessing that's when your friend died?


Yes. July 14th was when my friend died.


I mean this in the nicest way: for you to predicate your 'belief' of anything based on anything that has nothing to do with that thing, that's false logic.

I'm not swaying you to believe or not to believe, but I am swaying you toward logic. I don't know why anyone would apply emotion to a logical question.

I'll apply emotion towards anything because emotion is what makes the world go round.


That doesn't even make sense.  Huh

Quote

But anyways, I met a guy who does this strange Bible study thing on campus. I'm interested in the guy, so I might go see what exactly they do in "Bible Study."

oh iiiii see. the old take-up-a-religion-to-bag-the-guy trick. nice.
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« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2008, 10:40:19 AM »



Quote
Oh, and besides, even if I did have an inkling of a belief in god, I would have completely stopped on July 14, 2008.

i'm guessing that's when your friend died?


Yes. July 14th was when my friend died.


I mean this in the nicest way: for you to predicate your 'belief' of anything based on anything that has nothing to do with that thing, that's false logic.

I'm not swaying you to believe or not to believe, but I am swaying you toward logic. I don't know why anyone would apply emotion to a logical question.

I'll apply emotion towards anything because emotion is what makes the world go round.


That doesn't even make sense.  Huh

Quote

But anyways, I met a guy who does this strange Bible study thing on campus. I'm interested in the guy, so I might go see what exactly they do in "Bible Study."

oh iiiii see. the old take-up-a-religion-to-bag-the-guy trick. nice.


Of course. *shrugs* If it works, then it works.
Though I really don't like religion...
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Scott
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« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2008, 10:49:51 AM »



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Oh, and besides, even if I did have an inkling of a belief in god, I would have completely stopped on July 14, 2008.

i'm guessing that's when your friend died?


Yes. July 14th was when my friend died.


I mean this in the nicest way: for you to predicate your 'belief' of anything based on anything that has nothing to do with that thing, that's false logic.

I'm not swaying you to believe or not to believe, but I am swaying you toward logic. I don't know why anyone would apply emotion to a logical question.

I'll apply emotion towards anything because emotion is what makes the world go round.


That doesn't even make sense.  Huh

Quote

But anyways, I met a guy who does this strange Bible study thing on campus. I'm interested in the guy, so I might go see what exactly they do in "Bible Study."

oh iiiii see. the old take-up-a-religion-to-bag-the-guy trick. nice.


Of course. *shrugs* If it works, then it works.
Though I really don't like religion...

My point was - emotion doesn't make the world "go round."

If emotion is a human trait and if the world spins regardless of humans, emotion has nothing to do with making the world go around.

Now if you're speaking metaphorically, I can't help you. :]

What's wrong with religion in and of itself?
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pyroclasticlux
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« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2008, 06:43:08 PM »


Quote
But anyways, I met a guy who does this strange Bible study thing on campus. I'm interested in the guy, so I might go see what exactly they do in "Bible Study."
Quote
Of course. *shrugs* If it works, then it works.
Though I really don't like religion...

why bother if you don't like it?
if you're genuinely curious, that's one thing, but pretending to be something you're not is a really shitty thing to do to others.  if you can't be yourself round someone you're interested in, then you're definitely starting things off on the wrong foot.

moral lectures aside...
from how i understand it, usually bible studies are people reading passages, scriptures, etc and discussing what they've read.

Quote
...for you to predicate your 'belief' of anything based on anything that has nothing to do with that thing, that's false logic.
Quote
My point was - emotion doesn't make the world "go round."
If emotion is a human trait and if the world spins regardless of humans, emotion has nothing to do with making the world go around.
Quote
None of these things excludes God, so it's definitely possible you really felt God but it in no way proves God or solidifies your basis/foundation.

it seems increasingly apparent to me that the foundations of religion are based onnnnn....emotion.
and i might as well say it: it's not possible, thus far, to prove whether god exists as anything other than a concept or feeling.
when one asks a theist - at least, from my experience thus far - what is sort of their 'smoking gun' for god, it's always based on something tied to sentiment.
even when it includes growing up with it.


emotion and logic aren't always natural enemies, but in the case for faith, i think looking at things from a strictly logical perspective is the best way to 'prove' one way or the other.  feelings are based on the individual; logic is based on truth.

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Scott
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« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2008, 10:43:41 AM »


Quote
But anyways, I met a guy who does this strange Bible study thing on campus. I'm interested in the guy, so I might go see what exactly they do in "Bible Study."
Quote
Of course. *shrugs* If it works, then it works.
Though I really don't like religion...

why bother if you don't like it?
if you're genuinely curious, that's one thing, but pretending to be something you're not is a really shitty thing to do to others.  if you can't be yourself round someone you're interested in, then you're definitely starting things off on the wrong foot.

moral lectures aside...
from how i understand it, usually bible studies are people reading passages, scriptures, etc and discussing what they've read.

Quote
...for you to predicate your 'belief' of anything based on anything that has nothing to do with that thing, that's false logic.
Quote
My point was - emotion doesn't make the world "go round."
If emotion is a human trait and if the world spins regardless of humans, emotion has nothing to do with making the world go around.
Quote
None of these things excludes God, so it's definitely possible you really felt God but it in no way proves God or solidifies your basis/foundation.

it seems increasingly apparent to me that the foundations of religion are based onnnnn....emotion.
and i might as well say it: it's not possible, thus far, to prove whether god exists as anything other than a concept or feeling.
when one asks a theist - at least, from my experience thus far - what is sort of their 'smoking gun' for god, it's always based on something tied to sentiment.
even when it includes growing up with it.

emotion and logic aren't always natural enemies, but in the case for faith, i think looking at things from a strictly logical perspective is the best way to 'prove' one way or the other.  feelings are based on the individual; logic is based on truth.


Yeah, people know you can't logically prove whether God exists, which is why they revert to other methods: personal experiences, authority, the lack of other explanations, etc.

For some people, that's enough. Despite the glaringly obvious (to most) logic holes in this kind of thinking, religion isn't the same for everyone who practices it. Some practice it to please a higher being or higher beings, while some practice it to fill some hole in their life. In either case, they have the hope of ending up in a better place after death. And they have the comfort of "knowing" their loved ones will be waiting for them when they arrive.

Who wouldn't want that?

Unfortunately, for people who think it through, it doesn't make much sense. But then, if God hung out a lot a couple thousand years ago and then suddenly stopped, it would be nearly impossible to tell either way.
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Scott
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« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2008, 11:19:20 AM »

Just FYI, the point of this thread is to identify the source of your belief.

If you can imagine your belief in God as a tree of reasons, what are the roots?

For instance, here are my roots for my old beliefs:



In no way were they simple. On the contrary, they were complicated and not based on any kind of facts or deep thought about the WHY of it all.

For me, it just was and that was all. Never mind the fact that I was a horrible Sunday-Christian, I felt that no matter what I did, it would always be forgivable later on. It was the classic emotional crutch.

So once again - what's the source of your beliefs?

Mine was obviously my family.
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« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2008, 07:49:49 PM »


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But anyways, I met a guy who does this strange Bible study thing on campus. I'm interested in the guy, so I might go see what exactly they do in "Bible Study."
Quote
Of course. *shrugs* If it works, then it works.
Though I really don't like religion...

why bother if you don't like it?
if you're genuinely curious, that's one thing, but pretending to be something you're not is a really shitty thing to do to others.  if you can't be yourself round someone you're interested in, then you're definitely starting things off on the wrong foot.


I was kidding. lol. I wouldn't actually do that. =D
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Scott
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« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2008, 09:08:35 PM »


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But anyways, I met a guy who does this strange Bible study thing on campus. I'm interested in the guy, so I might go see what exactly they do in "Bible Study."
Quote
Of course. *shrugs* If it works, then it works.
Though I really don't like religion...

why bother if you don't like it?
if you're genuinely curious, that's one thing, but pretending to be something you're not is a really shitty thing to do to others.  if you can't be yourself round someone you're interested in, then you're definitely starting things off on the wrong foot.


I was kidding. lol. I wouldn't actually do that. =D

Are you sure?
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« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2009, 03:03:05 PM »

From my upbringing and my involvement in YoungLife as a teen.
*shrug*

You should believe in santa claus too then..
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« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2009, 07:10:10 AM »

Just FYI, the point of this thread is to identify the source of your belief.

If you can imagine your belief in God as a tree of reasons, what are the roots?
later on. It was the classic emotional crutch.


I believe the reason I believe is that God orchestrated my upbringing (my family, the friends I had to choose from, that yearbook entry which changed my attitude towards men/boys, the communities I became a part of, the art I was exposed to--including books and songs--etc.) to lead me to clue in to my need for Him in my life. In a way, you could say He's sheltered me from forces that were beyond the strength of my belief at that time, in order to cultivate my faith and allow it to grow. I don't know why He allows some to stray beyond that shelter--some for a time, some forever. I don't believe God could ever prove His existence to me; I'm not God so I can never know anything for certain. But He's given me enough clues that it would be spiteful of me not to believe in Him. He's absolutely spoiled me by giving me an intact family, intelligence beyond average (or at least the ability to be clever and perform well on tests), creative abilities that give me fulfillment in visual art and music, a husband who really cares about me and stuck with me through my trip to insanity and back, four well-behaved children including twins (a total surprise considering they don't run in either family). I've bolstered my belief by reading The Case for Christ, The Case for Faith, Mere Christianity, and now I'm working on Timothy Keller's The Reason for God: Belief in an Age of Skepticism, and this summer I plan to tackle Josh McDowell's Evidence that Demands a Verdict. I just can't get enough of reading about Christian apologetics. I want to please my God who's spoiled me like a favorite daughter and prepare myself so I can give an answer for the reason for the hope that I have should the opportunity arise, because I know that's what would please him best (I'm a people-pleaser, can you tell?). I believe that others can clue in to God's existence if they look for it, much as we believe in gravity--even though we can't be 100% certain that it's there and always will be there because we can't control it and set or bend the rules for it--because so many things point to its existence. And I feel that's all I can ramble on for now.
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pyroclasticlux
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« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2009, 09:30:25 PM »



perhaps i'm just a sap, but i think that, if i were spoilt by God, that would make me feel guilty more than favoured knowing that there are so many people out there that aren't in such a position.
to be clear: i'm not implying that you should feel that way; for me, though, i think it would further lessen my opinion because we are all supposed to be created in His image and therefore deserve to be equally valued by Him.


regardless, i think a belief in God is, while similar in some ways, quite different overall than the concept of gravity.  we know gravity exists on earth because the evidence is clear; whatever we call it, it still presents itself time and time again in obvious form.  it's conceptual to a degree, but it's not so ambiguous as a Creator: when we witness gravity, we (humans) collectively know it; when we witness God - or, on a smaller scale, evidence of God - do we collectively know it?

we can believe anything we choose to -
however, belief doesn't make something true.


ps. apologies for the edits; i was trying to fix the font and forgot the format the forum requires.
pps. the alliteration was completely unintentional, but isn't it rather swell?


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melidere
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« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2009, 06:07:02 PM »



i think it would further lessen my opinion because we are all supposed to be created in His image and therefore deserve to be equally valued by Him.




Do you equally value all your creations? If you made 100 "Self-Portrait" tiles, each one portraying a little bit of who you are, would you enjoy each of them equally? I think you would respect each one equally, because each one of them needs to belong to make the set complete, but I'm sure you'd have a few favorites.
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« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2009, 06:14:27 PM »



i think it would further lessen my opinion because we are all supposed to be created in His image and therefore deserve to be equally valued by Him.




Do you equally value all your creations? If you made 100 "Self-Portrait" tiles, each one portraying a little bit of who you are, would you enjoy each of them equally? I think you would respect each one equally, because each one of them needs to belong to make the set complete, but I'm sure you'd have a few favorites.

You are comparing a Supernatural being to a human. We have no idea what Supernatural beings think because they don't exist in the natural world. Hence Supernatural. We also have no proven way of reaching this supernatural world, or even any shred of evidence that it even exists.
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« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2009, 06:18:48 PM »

Quote
regardless, i think a belief in God is, while similar in some ways, quite different overall than the concept of gravity.  we know gravity exists on earth because the evidence is clear; whatever we call it, it still presents itself time and time again in obvious form.  it's conceptual to a degree, but it's not so ambiguous as a Creator: when we witness gravity, we (humans) collectively know it; when we witness God - or, on a smaller scale, evidence of God - do we collectively know it?

we can believe anything we choose to -
however, belief doesn't make something true.


I think you answered your own question. We do, deep down, collectively KNOW there is a God and observe little evidences of God (Romans 1:20). The problem is, we can believe anything we choose to--and Satan makes sure that it is plenty appealing NOT to believe in God. However, belief doesn't make something true.
Which brings up the question, possibly for another forum: What DOES make something true? What is truth, really? And how do we know it exists? Or don't we?
« Last Edit: June 19, 2009, 03:50:47 PM by pyroclasticlux » Logged
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« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2009, 06:26:47 PM »

Prove to me that we can feel God, and that it isn't just your brain, (which is remarkably good at seeing patterns and assigning things stuff).

How do I know that my conscious is either God or a series of neurological reactions?

Other than that, I really don't understand what you were saying? What makes truth?

Truth... I guess that comes down to 3 logical absolutes, but I won't get into that because it is extremely confusing.

Essentially, all we are is our mind, so truth is relevant. Everything is relevant to us. Truth in a 'nature' setting is different. Essentially, if it is true, it is true, and not false. If it is false it is not true... that's about it...

FInally, science does NOT find truth. Science finds what is false and uses evidence to create theories for why things work the way they do. (Nice tid-bit, we have more evidence for evolution than gravity! (Of course that is assuming that you don't have redundancies. I.E. everything everywhere staying glued to the earth, you don't count each case, you count it as a whole.))
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