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Author Topic: The Creation of Time and Space  (Read 713 times)
Scott
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« on: August 21, 2009, 09:55:16 PM »

These videos (and the title!) were taken from this post on Gizmodo, one of my favorite blogs-

The Big Bang:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV6aQbnHSRo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV6aQbnHSRo</a>

and...

The Ten Dimensions:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCQx9U6awFw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCQx9U6awFw</a>

Keep in mind, these theories came about from the best minds on the planet. They have observed the universe and come up with theories that are realistic based on the evidence.

These theories do not explain the why, but they do explain the how, what, when, where.

My question isn't the why (although I'd like to know), but more so--

Does this point to or away from a god and why?

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melidere
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« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2009, 07:32:50 AM »

I'm going to have to chew on this one for a while; I couldn't help myself--I watched the one on the 11th dimension as well, where he clarifies that the 4th dimension is not really time but duration, since time is merely one of the directions of that dimension. This is fascinating stuff, and if you like it, you'll enjoy reading William Sleator's The Boy who Reversed Himself, a juvenile fiction book.
My first impressions are that, as I said before, having many dimensions explains how God can know the future, because to him, it's just a point on a line that he can look in on and observe and try to explain to us in terms we can understand. It also explains how Philip could have traveled "in the Spirit" to come across the Ethiopian who needed to hear the Gospel.
Whew, my brain is pooped from all this theoretical thinking!
The problem I see with this is that, if there are really 10 dimensions as he described, there are alternate universes where things didn't go as God planned, i.e. Christ didn't die for our sins and doesn't ultimately win the battle against Satan. And if that is so, then God is only all-powerful in regards to this one universe that we're part of. Yet God claims to be the God of gods, the King of kings, the Lord of lords--you get the picture. So either he is a liar (in regards to not reporting the full truth) or there aren't multiple universes, or I'm missing something. And I have questions--maybe dumb ones, but I'll post them anyway. If there are multiple universes, why do we all exist in the universe that has this religify.com website in it, or even us in it, for that matter? Why can't we access the other universes?
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London_Rain
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« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2009, 09:45:04 AM »

I really enjoyed the second movie. Thank you for posting that here. I most likely will watch it again, just because I feel like I didn't fully understand it the first time.

About "God":

You ask if it pointed to or away from a God; yet, we don't have a real understand of what a God might be. Even dictionary definitions aren't sufficient. If a God is an all powerful entity, then he would be able to use the dimensions to his bidding; however, he can't exist outside of the tenth dimension. (If I understood correctly.) If he can't control the tenth dimension, but only exist inside of it, then he really isn't all powerful, meaning that no God, if there is a God, is all powerful.

But all of that aside, we can't even begin to know anything about a God, or its capabilities because we don't know anything about Gods in the first place.

I find something amusing though. Suppose a God is defined as someone who can control other dimensions. Wouldn't we all (humans) be masters of the second and first dimensions?

I should probably watch that video again, because my pre-conceived notions about the different dimensions might be false. However, if I understood correctly, then what I wrote above should be good "meat" for a discussion.
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Scott
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« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2009, 07:35:08 PM »

I'm going to have to chew on this one for a while; I couldn't help myself--I watched the one on the 11th dimension as well, where he clarifies that the 4th dimension is not really time but duration, since time is merely one of the directions of that dimension. This is fascinating stuff, and if you like it, you'll enjoy reading William Sleator's The Boy who Reversed Himself, a juvenile fiction book.
My first impressions are that, as I said before, having many dimensions explains how God can know the future, because to him, it's just a point on a line that he can look in on and observe and try to explain to us in terms we can understand. It also explains how Philip could have traveled "in the Spirit" to come across the Ethiopian who needed to hear the Gospel.

I agree with you that these theories explain how God could know all possible time lines in all possible beginnings as I am a believer in causal determinism, but given this point -- you also have to understand that free will is an illusion, which would make a series of gods into liars (including the holy Christian trinity). And this is so for a number of reasons, one being that the expressed purpose for life on earth (according to the Christian Bible) is to live in the world of sin and still choose God. But if your choice has already been decided, what sense does that make?

If you take it one step further -- if every choice you could ever make exists in the series of time lines where "you" exist, which would determine whether you get into heaven?

Quote
Whew, my brain is pooped from all this theoretical thinking!
The problem I see with this is that, if there are really 10 dimensions as he described, there are alternate universes where things didn't go as God planned, i.e. Christ didn't die for our sins and doesn't ultimately win the battle against Satan. And if that is so, then God is only all-powerful in regards to this one universe that we're part of. Yet God claims to be the God of gods, the King of kings, the Lord of lords--you get the picture. So either he is a liar (in regards to not reporting the full truth) or there aren't multiple universes, or I'm missing something. And I have questions--maybe dumb ones, but I'll post them anyway. If there are multiple universes, why do we all exist in the universe that has this religify.com website in it, or even us in it, for that matter? Why can't we access the other universes?

Well, if there are multiple time lines containing even the most slightly shifted atom as the difference between one and the next, you can bet that "you" exist in a limited set of them and the same goes for everyone else. Essentially, they're saying that multiple dimensions allow for all possible variations on everything (limited by the initial ingredients of the big bang, of course). That would mean this website would exist in a set of them along with you. Why we exist with it, I do not know. I think human access to other dimensions, given enough time, is possible.

The other thing I'd like to touch on (that we should put up a different thread for entirely) is any 'battle' between good and evil -- in this case God and the devil.

If God is all-powerful, all-knowing, ever-present, etc., then how in the world would a fallen Angel (God's creation) have any effect on him what-so-ever? All-powerful means being able to create or destroy (or anything in between) anything. But again, this is an entire debate unto itself. Just wanted to get that out there.
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Scott
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« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2009, 07:45:07 PM »

I really enjoyed the second movie. Thank you for posting that here. I most likely will watch it again, just because I feel like I didn't fully understand it the first time.

Yeah, I think I'll give them both another viewing as well. I don't think it's ever been explained to me so well as it is in the second video.

Quote

About "God":

You ask if it pointed to or away from a God; yet, we don't have a real understand of what a God might be. Even dictionary definitions aren't sufficient. If a God is an all powerful entity, then he would be able to use the dimensions to his bidding; however, he can't exist outside of the tenth dimension. (If I understood correctly.) If he can't control the tenth dimension, but only exist inside of it, then he really isn't all powerful, meaning that no God, if there is a God, is all powerful.

I agree. Like we were saying in the other thread, to even discuss whether God exists, you need to define what God would be and what that God has power over.

I do need to watch it again with your point in mind (if he can't control the 10th dimension, he's not all-powerful) but as people have pointed out in numerous God debates- the biggest problem with the Big Bang is that it needs an Agent. The Agent is the thing that triggers it. Of course, that is, if it's the only one. If there are billions of universes, then I suppose the need for an Agent disappears since the effects of one could presumably cause a chain reaction in the next. However, if there is only one universe (the space where the Big Bang happens in an infinite number of ways), then we still need an Agent. That would mean "God" does exist outside that dimension and can control it.

However, in this case -- God could be anything. An analogy could be the butterfly effect -- a butterfly flaps its wings in California and causes a hurricane in Florida: very small Agent, large Effect.

Quote
But all of that aside, we can't even begin to know anything about a God, or its capabilities because we don't know anything about Gods in the first place.

I find something amusing though. Suppose a God is defined as someone who can control other dimensions. Wouldn't we all (humans) be masters of the second and first dimensions?

That seems like something we could physically test. In a way, since we have the power to interact with the third dimension and down, we are masters of all that we can touch. But we have more limitations than powers, that's for sure. At least for now.

Quote
I should probably watch that video again, because my pre-conceived notions about the different dimensions might be false. However, if I understood correctly, then what I wrote above should be good "meat" for a discussion.
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"The important thing is not to stop questioning; curiosity has its own reason for existing." -- Albert Einstein
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